Discussion

nycphils 2018-01-03 12:48:32 UTC #541

Steve Jeltz is, in my memory at least, the worst regular (i.e. every day) player the Phils have used in my lifetime.

phillychuck 2018-01-03 13:53:22 UTC #542

Statistically, Jeltz was good enough defensively that he was about replacement level despite an OPS+ of about 65 over his Phils' career. In six years his WAR was -1.4, or about -0.3 per year (of full-time play). Michael Martinez was worse on a per game basis, but didn't really play regularly.

Tommy Joseph was worse last year, as was Ryan Howard at the end of his career. But Jeltzie is certainly in the discussion, especially considering how long he was a regular or semi-regular.

Lawman 2018-01-03 14:34:11 UTC #543

Ah....Jeltz. There's a name that brings back childhood memories.

Philsmania 2018-01-03 16:06:38 UTC #544

Wasn't he once upon a time a hot prospect?

phillychuck 2018-01-03 16:13:19 UTC #545

Yes, he was pretty much deemed a future superstar after a really good year in AA for the Red Sox--he tore up AAA for 25 games the following year, but never really put together a better season than that year, the year he came up for the Red Sox, about a 2-WAR year. He is too much of a free swinger--had 5-6% walk rates throughout his career. He was much better in AAA with the Rangers last year...probably his best minor league season since AA with the Red Sox years ago.

Seems like he has similar problems to those of Maikel Franco. Too bad, he seemed like a future all-star 8 years ago.

He's been dating Jenny Dell of NESN who has been a sideline reporter and host for them. Maybe she'll be coming to Philly.

California_Dreamin 2018-01-03 16:33:30 UTC #546

In fact he was a guy that a few of us wanted to trade for when the Phils were looking for a 3rd baseman. Several of us thought he fit the bill.

zambonir 2018-01-03 19:03:36 UTC #547

When I Googled him "girlfriend Jenny Dell" was like the first auto-complete. I'm sure she's already used to him being gone during baseball season.

He was a lot more hyped than Cody Asche but Cody is probably a better AAAA player. I did notice he (Middlebrooks) has played all four IF positions (albeit not very often in the middle) so they probably like that. Probably just a bridge guy for Walding, if he's not starting in AAA?

bkox 2018-01-03 19:22:43 UTC #548

She left NESN and is now an NFL sideline reporter for CBS. Her and Middlebrooks got married in 2016 according to wikipedia

julio 2018-01-03 20:42:30 UTC #549

Her got married? Rats!

bkox 2018-01-03 22:32:33 UTC #550

Yes it should have said "she got married". But see.. I derive most of my income from doing work on Mturk and other microtasking type sites. Its what keeps food in my tummy and a roof over my head. Its all online piece work, meaning I get paid by the task and have 0 guaranteed income and dont get any kind of hourly rate or salary. So often something pops as Im replying here and the money to me is more important that proofreading. See, I used to look at this phorum as a group of friends, and we could talk informally just as I would chat with my face to face friends. I make a lot of grammar mistakes. I dont use ' in contractions. I often use the wrong contraction when choosing between dont and doesnt and other things like that. But as long as I was making sense I didnt think it mattered here.

To summarize.. I work day and night on the computer to get by each month and work to get out of debt from the days I didnt have this income source. I rush alot so im gonna make grammar mistakes. The choice is I either dont post if they bother people, or people deal with the occasional spelling and/or grammar issue

tom81 2018-01-03 22:47:01 UTC #551

I don’t write good either

julio 2018-01-03 22:47:43 UTC #552

Wow. My apologies, bkox. I didn't mean to criticize - just a gut reaction to something that I have to deal with a lot that bugs me. i had a boss who constantly wrote "Send xxx to Joe and I," and I always read "Send xxx to I." The thing is, this person knew better - we're talking about a senior public servant responsible for a $35 billion budget here.

But no, it doesn't "matter" here... and my lame attempt at humor obviously didn't work.

Again, my apologies.

jimbomill 2018-01-04 13:43:55 UTC #553

It's all good, bkox.

Take the comment as some good natured ball-busting. Friends, even a group of online ones, sometimes are close enough to trust the relationship and take a crack at busting chops.

Life is hard, all over, for most of us, it is the daily grind, often the only fun you have is the fun you bring with you - hope you have a Happy New Year in 2018!

andyb 2018-01-04 16:26:07 UTC #554

New Rosenthal column on the Athletic has one paragraph on the Phillies still looking to actively improve with the main idea being trading Herrera or Williams in a deal for a controllable starter (note Altherr NOT mentioned) or alternatively signing Arrieta (with the Baltimore front office connection mentioned).

I think one of these 2 things will happen in some way. Time for the dominoes to start falling. Also, there is talk in the column about how all the analytic teams like Darvish's stuff.

tom81 2018-01-04 17:36:50 UTC #555

I think that the Phillies are still looking to improve but I don't think it will necessarily involve one of those two things happening in some way.

I don't see them moving Herrera as I've said in other posts, they really value and need his defense. They may move Williams so I partially agree but I also think it more likely that they are trying to package Quinn and/or Cozens in any potential deal as they are both on the 40 man and don't really have a place to play on the current 25.

I have no clue as to who that are interested in as a FA and what their criterion are. We are increasingly analytic and play things close to the vest so it wouldn't really surprise me that we are in on Darvish and not Arrieta. I would also not surprise me if it was decided that the length of contract is just too long for these two guys.

I think we make some more moves but I think many will be surprised at the moves we make.

andyb 2018-01-04 19:13:44 UTC #556

I think the assumption we made a year ago is that they were smarter analytically and did value defense. At this point, however, that assumption may not be as certain. They have just signed a major free agent that will cost them defensively in the outfield if Hoskins is to play there. That may be a sign they do not value defense as highly as we thought. And there is an analytical reason behind this. The game has changed a bit. There are far fewer balls in play and the more that happens, the less defense matters. Add in shifts that help defense regardless of the skill level of the individual players and you may have a situation where offense is more important in the value equation.

zambonir 2018-01-04 19:22:57 UTC #557

Herrera would count as a surprise though I agree you'd be giving up defense, even if they do have other OFs who can play the position, none of them are as good right now. It's possible Altherr could be though, if he was out there every day. I mean, Herrera had never even played it and look at him now.

The problem with trading Quinn and/or Cozens is they don't actually get you anything. They are at best a third piece behind a Kingery or Sanchez and another good prospect (Cozens has little value right now; Quinn's is questionable due to his durability). So long as we are talking about the attractive, controllable #2-3 pitchers who are all going to fetch a high price.

Whereas Williams headlines a deal along with one good prospect. It just becomes a question of what you'd rather give up, a major leaguer and two B prospects, or two A prospects and a B prospect, or even someone like Rupp.

If you just want to get a #4 type starter for depth and experience, different story, but those are easy to get.

And if you do trade Williams (or any of the major league OFs) there's a place for Quinn.

bkeich 2018-01-04 19:43:44 UTC #558

When the season starts, the DL is empty. There is already a spot for Quinn.

I dont really understand the "need" to trade an OF. Yes, we have 5 players to fill 4 spots (Herrera, Williams, Altherr, Hoskins and Santana), but does anyone really expect all 5 to be healthy? I would be surprised if all 5 are even available for 30 games. We don't really have an excess.

If Quinn or Cozens is available, then we have an excess. Cozens still has alot to prove at AAA and lets face it Quinn just needs to stay on the field to be in the ML's, but he hasnt been able to. Additionally, we do need bench players, and either of these 2 are perfectly reasonable in JUST that role, not expecting them to be a consistent starter.

zambonir 2018-01-04 20:17:03 UTC #559

The "need" isn't to trade one of the OFs, the need is to get a pitcher. OF just happens to be an area where they do in fact have a surplus, while the rotation is an area where they have a shortage. Also a surplus at catcher but Rupp or Knapp aren't going to get you as much. Technically a surplus at 2B but that would be an aggressive move (regardless of which guy you traded).

If they do keep all 4 OFs, especially if they have a short bench, there will be plenty of playing time to go around, and any one of them could still be traded in the future. But there is a lot of bigger-picture thinking going on here. For instance, whether it's better to trade one of your major leaguers or pull the plug on one of your three first-rounders. In some cases, it won't even be up to the Phillies. Teams like Tampa or KC might greatly prefer cheap major-league talent to prospects.

allentown 2018-01-04 20:27:14 UTC #560

Nor do I. Just as May always follows April, the Phillies aren't going to go through the season with all 5 of their 'starting' OF/1B avoiding injuries or serious slumps. Even if all of them stay at the peak of health and production, there is nothing wrong with each of them getting 80% of a full share of ABs.

We need a pitcher, hopefully better than a #4. We are awash in $. Sign a FA.