Discussion

Lawman 2017-12-13 18:16:10 UTC #123

zambonir 2017-12-13 18:58:28 UTC #124

Obviously the Phillies are not where the Dodgers are but this is an interesting note from Rosenthal, given that we know LA's front office is an influence on Klentak and Kapler

The team, according to major-league sources, also wants to ensure it does not block opportunities for its top pitching prospects, most notably right-handers Walker Buehler and Trevor Oaks and lefty Julio Urias, who is unlikely to be ready until later in the season after undergoing major shoulder surgery last June.
The Dodgers’ theory is that they will stall the development of their younger pitchers if they fail to give those pitchers a chance. The team is well-positioned to integrate Buehler, Oaks, and others. It supports its starters by limiting the lengths of their outings — the Dodgers’ rotation ranked 10th in the NL last season in innings — and often protects arms by making liberal use of the disabled list.

Philsmania 2017-12-13 22:18:29 UTC #125

Boras & Harper are exploring a possible extension with the Nationals. I wonder the Stanton deal seemingly knocking the Yankees out of that race has anything to do with it.

bkox 2017-12-13 23:40:08 UTC #126

I dont understand how MLB can just stand idle while the Marlins basically become a Triple A team. Betwee Stanton, Gordon and Ozuna they have traded away over 16 WAR. If Yelich goes then its about 20.

This is not in the best interests of baseball.. and its like the 4th or 5th fire sale in the 25 year history of the Marlins... and all 3 ownership groups have done it.

They are never going to get a fan base in S Florida. Its going to be interesting to see if the Marlins outdraw the numbers the Expos had in their last couple years.

flyers19rw 2017-12-13 23:55:51 UTC #127

I don't know what MLB was going to do with the Marlins. Loria had run the organization into the ground. He was hitting MLB for money to meet payroll. In essence the Fish were bankrupt. Their future was so cloudy that the organization had a dearth of suitors when it went on the market. Just about all of them dropped out except for one whose financials were quite weak. When MLB agreed to the sale to the Jeter organization, they had to know that it was going to be a total tear down and rebuild and what would follow is what were are witnessing. It would surprise me if Yelich was not moved as well as Prado and a few others. The Marlins are going to be the modern version of the A's after Finley died.

andyb 2017-12-14 00:03:33 UTC #128

I guess the hope is that with new ownership the team can be run correctly. MLB obviously needs to give everyone a chance to rebuild - i.e. do what Houston did. Miami has a decent stadium now and the market is not an awful market. It is relatively wealthy in South Florida and there is enough passion around baseball to build a following. Plus, one could easily see the team as a leader in signing Latin American prospects because beyond the top tier I think lots of prospects would prefer to sign with the one market that is perhaps the most Latin American friendly market in the country.

Loria was the real problem. He should never have been allowed to do what he did to the team (or even to get the team in the first place). It was all an insider deal. New ownership needs a chance. If a full rebuild is what they need to do they should be at least given that chance. Of course their initial deals don't seem to be returning the high quality prospects they need, so not off to an auspicious start.

Lucky_Beagle 2017-12-14 00:05:41 UTC #129

I wonder what the players union thinks of this type of action. I suppose they represent all players on a 40 man roster, however those with year of experience can't be overly thrilled to know they are potentially losing out on job placements if teams are going to try and fill their roster with those making the bare minimum salary.

Philsmania 2017-12-14 15:23:39 UTC #130

andyb:

I guess the hope is that with new ownership the team can be run correctly. MLB obviously needs to give everyone a chance to rebuild - i.e. do what Houston did. Miami has a decent stadium now and the market is not an awful market. It is relatively wealthy in South Florida and there is enough passion around baseball to build a following. Plus, one could easily see the team as a leader in signing Latin American prospects because beyond the top tier I think lots of prospects would prefer to sign with the one market that is perhaps the most Latin American friendly market in the country.

Loria was the real problem. He should never have been allowed to do what he did to the team (or even to get the team in the first place). It was all an insider deal. New ownership needs a chance. If a full rebuild is what they need to do they should be at least given that chance. Of course their initial deals don't seem to be returning the high quality prospects they need, so not off to an auspicious start.

Clearly the Marlins will be tanking in 2018 and 2019 and maybe even 2020. However, it's a valid question whether they are tanking as a smart baseball strategy, a la the Astros, or by necessity because the owners are broke.

I thought it was a mistake when Loria agreed to the deal with the Jeter-Sherman group over Jorge Mas, a deep-pocketed Miamian with a history of philanthropy. The Jeter-Sherman group won the bidding by agreeing to take on Loria's debt. How, they are going to pay it off while the run the organization deeper into the ground is a mystery to me. What I've read about Sherman though is that he is one of those venture capitalist types. They buy distressed companies for a song (really, Sherman's group only scraped together $800 million for the Marlins plus the $400 million in assumed debt), make them profitable (usually by laying off a boatload of workforce and basically paring the company down to the bone) and then sell them for a handsome profit. If they can get rid of that debt and make the team somehow profitable, I can see them selling for a fortune. However, I don't see how they get a good TV deal or put money into scouting and player development to sufficiently take advantage of this tanking.

zambonir 2017-12-16 01:11:30 UTC #131

I wonder, depending how the the roster ends up, if the Phillies would consider it. Of course, it's easy to do de facto anyway, and going with an extra reliever while not letting your starters go six has kind of the same effect.

allentown 2017-12-16 02:28:50 UTC #132

Six-man rotation and the eight man pen we apparently are planning equals a 3-man bench.

zambonir 2017-12-16 02:38:53 UTC #133

Ha yes, would have to be one or the other. Of course the Phillies had eight guys make more than 10 starts last year, plus Thompson made eight, and Bucholtz began the year in the rotation, so nobody pitched more than 150 innings besides Nola anyway.

Philsmania 2017-12-16 03:01:45 UTC #134

Or MLB will have a two man "taxi squad" for SP's 1-2 games after they last started.

LoneStarPhan 2017-12-16 03:36:57 UTC #135

Time for rosters to go from 25 to 27 or 28. 40 man roster to 42. I don't see any reason to have to move a couple starting pitchers off the active roster for each game. Just set the limit up 2 or 3 more and let everyone be eligible for every game.

zambonir 2017-12-16 07:34:49 UTC #136

expansion will happen but so will the NL DH. Which I accept as inevitable but watching the World Series when it was in Houston reminded me how much I dislike watching it. the talk of limiting pitching changes or having a minimum # of batters faced might help.

Lawman 2017-12-20 17:25:09 UTC #137

TB trades Longoria to SF.

Philsmania 2017-12-21 20:58:01 UTC #138

The sexual harassment epidemic has hit MLB.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/former-mlbam-head-bob-bowman-was-forced-out-after-numerous-incidents-of-alleged-workplace-misconduct/ar-BBH7Yq3?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=ientp

Squire 2017-12-29 16:21:43 UTC #139

The Rockies just agreed to a deal with former Cubs Closer RHP Wade Davis for 3 years 52M with a vesting option for a 4th year at 15M. That's huge coin for a reliever.

phillychuck 2017-12-29 16:25:39 UTC #140

That was exactly my reaction. What does he figure to produce in WAR over the life of the contract? Maybe 1-2 WAR per year at best?

julio 2017-12-29 16:39:00 UTC #141

Yeah... and that's assuming no time lost to any DL stints over three years.

zambonir 2017-12-29 18:38:02 UTC #142

Funny, I saw that and thought they got a good deal, compared to what Chapman got (as far as years), or what the Phillies gave Papelbon at the time. What's funny is his WAR doesn't correlate with saves, it was higher in 2014 and 2015. The myth of the closer persists, though perhaps their value (or just the value of an elite reliever) is greater if you're thinking about the postseason. 60 innings over 162 games can only have so much value but 10 innings over 20 can have more (if you get there).

Biggest AAV for closer ever (by a hair), I wonder if the market will still be high the starters.