Pre 2017 Season Delusional Phillies Phans Thread

tom81 2016-11-22 00:52:57 UTC #1

My first delusion

The big market Phillies step to the plate and put up an entertaining competitive team in 2017. With no major contracts on the books, a big time TV deal kicking in and a rich farm system they put it to use. Caesar Hernandez and several minor league prospects are traded to the White Sox's for Chris Sale and Milky Cabrera. They sign free agent closet Aroldis Chapman and free agent Greg Holland. Roman Quinn makes the club out of spring training, stays healthy all year and wins rookie of the year award.

Sale, Hellickson, Velasquez, Eickhoff, Nola all stay relatively healthy.

RF Quinn
2B Kendrick
CF Herrera
1B Joseph
LF Cabrera
3B Franco
C Rupp
SS Galvis

zambonir 2016-11-22 03:13:26 UTC #2

That's pretty good but you'll have to be more specific about the White Sox trade (even by delusional standards). Realistically I think Velasquez is part of that trade. Who else, of Crawford, Alfaro and Moniak?

Unfortunately that's still not a great team, just a decent one. The Quinn expectation is a lot to ask, Kendrick and Galvis are offensive question marks and Joseph is still an unknown quantity. So is Franco for that matter. Maybe defense and pitching gets it done but you'd still need a lot of best-case seasons from too many players which is exactly the mistake past Phillies' front offices made. And why this one is waiting another year to see what they really have.

Lucky_Beagle 2016-11-22 22:22:52 UTC #3

The Phillies figure out a way to go fishing and catch a Trout.

Slinging_Southpaw 2016-11-22 23:10:06 UTC #4

The premise behind the original "Delusional Thread" wasn't about crazy trades that'll never happen, it was more about the players we already had, that I thought, given the chance, could actually be more than weak bench players that 90% of the posters here thought. Players like Cesar Hernandez, Freddy Galvis, Cody Asche and Darin Ruf. The jury's still out on some of those players, though Hernandez and Galvis at least look like legit Major Leaguers regulars now.
It was about believing in our players and team.

Lucky_Beagle 2016-11-22 23:17:49 UTC #5

Ok, I will try again Mark Appel will play for the Phillies at some point this season.

tom81 2016-11-22 23:53:38 UTC #6

Your original post SS was in February of 2015 after the winter meetings and the likelihood of any trades was very low. I started this 2017 thread much earlier and should have called it something else since I believe there is chance to make major trades and reshape this team before the season. I will attempt to edit the title. The reason I started this thread was to present the possibility of the Phillies making a major trade now that could change the outcome of this year's team and also the outcome over the next few years. The White Sox have let it be known that they are willing to trade anyone who has less than 4 years of team control. http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2016/11/white-sox-willing-to-trade-any-player-with-less-than-four-years-of-control.html The biggest hole in this team IMO is tue lack of a true ace, another hole is the lack of a good left handed starting pitcher. Sale fills both holes, he is young and he would be under control for 3 years, certainly the less delusional can consider we might be a playoff team in 2019. I also feel that the addition of an ace and a free agent closer will make this team competitive in 2017.
I would like to catch a Trout too but his team isn't shopping him and I don't think the need for him is as high as an ace.

Slinging_Southpaw 2016-11-23 00:26:41 UTC #7

No reason to change anything, I haven't copyrighted being delusional.

baseballoldie 2016-11-23 00:32:04 UTC #8

I concur 100% - Sale is the guy to go after for the rebuild. Yes, he would cost a lot in the way of prospects but he would really fill a need at the TOR and the Phillies have the financial capacity to make him the centerpiece of the pitching staff for a long time to come.

tom81 2016-11-23 00:55:12 UTC #9

Cheers SS

tom81 2016-12-04 04:14:25 UTC #10

Yes it probably does take Velasquez as part of the package for Sale, they will want a young starter back with upside. Probably have to replace Velasquez with Eflin in my rotation above. I really don't think you will have to include any of Crawford, Alfaro and Moniak in a package with Velasquez and Hernandez, maybe just Knapp and some off the 40 man.

Maybe this isn't enough but the Tigers look like they want to shed some salary, especially with the new CBA. There are stories of us asking about JD Martinez.

Heck in for a penny in for a pound, lets get Verlander too! We certainly have cap room This looks better:

Verlander, Sale, Hellickson, Eickhoff, Nola with Chapman as closer

CF Herrera
2B Kendrick
RF Martinez
LF Cabrera
1B Joseph
3B Franco
C Rupp
SS Galvis

donaldorc 2016-12-04 10:35:55 UTC #11

Get 'er done, Klentak! I'm ready to contend again.

tom81 2017-03-17 00:12:48 UTC #12

Well the Phillies look to have a 40 man roster crunch and no LH starting pitchers. Is it time to look to trading for José Quintana?

allentown 2017-03-17 01:08:03 UTC #13

Given that it will be something of a stretch for this year's Phillies to win 81 games, I don't think it really matters that we don't have a LHSP. If TPTB are paranoid about that lack, they can always put Morgan in the rotation.

tom81 2017-03-17 03:54:13 UTC #14

Yea but Q is 28, a 5 war pitcher last year and under team control for 4 more years. A compression trade now makes sense.

zambonir 2017-03-17 06:02:02 UTC #15

Well, I guess you did post this in the delusional thread but I also had no idea what you were talking about. Is there really a Phillies rumor out there?

Anyway, that certainly would be more than a trade for this year, but I don't think I'd call it "compression" to give up what you'd have to for him, even if did subtract a couple of guys from the 40. That's not to say I wouldn't trade for him, regardless of which hand he throws with. But it's still a little early. Starting point would be Quinn or Williams and Thompson or Eflin, no?

tom81 2017-03-17 13:03:32 UTC #16

Yes I purposely resurrected the delusional thread for this.
I started thinking about it after I read this post,

Phillies 2017 Spring Training Discussion

Andy Macphail was on 94WIP this morning and discussed a bit of roster construction and prospect development (in addition to answering a lot of personal questions (from Al Morganti) in the interview.

He was higher than others on Williams and Crawford, felt they had reasonable years last season, reminded Al that Williams was batting around .300 on August 1st and just had a horrible month. He was happy Williams was taking more pitches this spring. He also pointed out how young Crawford is for AAA.

He also talked about roster construction, emphasized how deep the 40-man roster is, mentioned that everyone they've moved off the 40 in the last 18 months has been claimed. He talked specifically about Stassi, that keeping him would essentially be a trade, Stassi for whoever they remove from the 40.

This article started me thinking about Quintana:

, Pirates, Rangers and Yankees were all linked to Jose Quintana in trade rumors this offseason, the best offer the White Sox received came from an unnamed club that is currently perceived as more of a rebuilding team. That could mean any number of teams — the Braves, Phillies, Twins, Reds, Brewers and Padres are all in the midst of retooling their organizations — and further context is seemingly unknown at this time.

I do agree with you zambonir that we would have to start with an OF and a SP like the ones you mention and also add another player or two depending on the quality of what we up.

I suspect that the team may want to add 2-3 guys to the 25 man roster, for opening day , that are currently not on the 40 man and see the likelihood of at least 1 more, Crawford, before the season is over. If removing guys from the 40 means losing them as MacPhail implied then we really should either be doing a compression trade now or trading them for someone that doesn't need to be on the 40 man.

andyb 2017-03-17 15:26:42 UTC #17

In terms of long term rumors it would not be outlandish to think that Quintana might want to come to Philly if Alfaro is the catcher.

I do think we still need an arm at the top of our rotation to compete unless Velasquez takes a huge step forward. We have chosen to draft offense the last couple of years and it is hard to see Kilome or Sanchez as that top of the rotation arm.

Not sure Quintana is the right one to go for (or if he even qualifies for number one status), but there easily could be a fit if the Phillies can add $50 million of salary.

zambonir 2017-03-17 21:27:43 UTC #18

It is hard to imagine the Phillies as they are currently operating making the best offer (and I'm not sure I would even apply "perceived" to them). I certainly believe they will be trading some bigger names in the future but would be surprised to see it before the deadline (where a more creative trade than the usual might be possible) and off-season. And it seems to me the Sox are in the same posititon the Phillies were with Hamels, is the best offer going to be now or with a team under pressure - but still enticed by his low cost/control - in July.