Phils & Covid

[schillingfan]

Does that apply to Kylie Irving, too?

[bkox]

Does that apply to Kylie Irving, too?

Yes

NYC expanding vaccine exemption to city-based entertainers, clearing Kyrie...

[zambonir]

I personally would like to see the mandates stay, it's supposed to be a stick, not a carrot. It never entirely made sense that they could only apply it to home teams. Like, the regulatory power they claimed was tied to employment but aren't visting players de facto NYC-based employees when they play there (earning wages, paying tax)?

I'm glad things are safer (at least for now) and I just spent two hours in a largely unmasked - but vax-required - indoor space. But every refusenik is still just hurting herd immunity and helping variants. We'll surely still see a lot of positives this season, the question is will there even be testing, or quarantines required?

[LoneStarPhan]

True that those not getting vaccinated have contributed to more cases of COVID and at least indirectly to the death of others.

[schillingfan]

I imagine Covid will be like the flu. New variants with new shots required every year and killing a number of immune compromised people.If I could vaccinate the world.

[zambonir]

probably, but right now it's still like the 1918 flu. could be another couple of years before true endemicity and relatively easy annual management (and then half the world won't get vaccinated anyway. the flu is actually peaking right now for that same reason at a time when it's usually almost over. vax wasn't great this year and vax rates are low).

[zambonir]

If we want to shift that topic back here.

2022 Phillies Major League Regular Season Discussion

It is fascinating that people were pushed towards the J and J vaccine versus the MRNA vaccines. It was pretty clear early on that J and J had a slightly higher risk of these clots (though still ridiculously low) and a lower efficacy rate. It does seem that the "lack of track record" political talking points won out over the extensive testing on the MRNA vaccines.

It is just a shame that this became a political football. There is a legitimate argument about individual rights versus collective societal obligations. But science is supposed to dictate the answer to those arguments and science says the MRNA vaccines are perfectly safe. Hopefully they figure out a way to effectively recalibrate them for the Fall as their biggest weakness is not adapting to all these variations.

Suggestion - probably time to move this to one of the OT threads. Can't remember what our COVID-specific threads were but it possibly belongs there rather than the political thread.

[zambonir]

2022 Phillies Major League Regular Season Discussion

The best way to get players to get vaccinated is to give them copies of the studies that show long COVID can lead to erectile dysfunction. That'll motivate them!

The other thing is these guys do terrible things to their bodies every day because it's just part of baseball, often because a doctor tells them it's okay (and sometimes despite being told it's not). Greenies, PEDs, cortisone, getting shots to play through pain, Vicodin, surgeries a civilian would never have. If a doctor told JT there was an experimenal shot that could restore ligament tissue in his knees to avoid needing a replacement in 20 years he'd probably take it. But nobody would be on TV telling him not to do that.

[zambonir]

Well I'll keep trying not to clutter the general thread even if you guys won't!

2022 Phillies Major League Regular Season Discussion

There were times and places where J&J was the only available vaccine.

It was pushed more for ease of use (1 shot) and easier storage requirements (less cold). That is independent of the conspiracy theories around the MRNA vaccines though. If one's argument was that those vaccines were untested, then there needed to be a fallback to the more traditional vaccine.

There was still a use for J&J early on because of convenience. That is just not the reason some people used it however which was often a misguided (scientifically) attempt at safety.

The J&J was strongly recommended for the people who most urgently needed to be vaccinated, and in some cases because of supply issues with the others. At the time, even for healthier people, it felt like a great thing to be able to get the single shot. Then eventually it turned out to be less protective (on top of the greater, but still very small, side effects) and people were told to switch to the others for their boosters anyway.

[andyb]

From the start it had lower efficacy rates. It was just easier to get because it was 1 shot and could be sent to doctor's offices and pharmacies with regular refrigeration. Not sure it was ever pushed. It was more pitched as an acceptable option because it is easier.

This is independent of the point I was making (and admit I need to figure out how to reply from one thread to the other). Anti-vaccine types made a case that the MRNA vaccines were untested in the long term (which has to be true since they are new but does ignore the extensive testing and the 30-year history of the development of these types of vaccines).

If your only reason is the MRNA vaccine is untested, then you really had to go to the J&J vaccine which was much more similar to the traditional vaccines that just about all of us take and are mandatory for many schools. People were pushed to the less effective J&J vaccine in many cases because of unsubstantiated MRNA vaccine theories.

[zambonir]

pic.twitter.com/mmiP8RxS90

— Justin Klugh ( @justin_klugh ) July 12, 2022

(oops I guess that graphic violates board language policy, click for yourself)

[zambonir]

(and admit I need to figure out how to reply from one thread to the other).

you just quote in the old thread and then cut and paste it into new. But I believe A-Town is a mod so he could have moved your previous post and replied here too. I know it's hard to move them all.

[Dirk41]

JT seems like an ok guy. An out of touch, inconsequential, boring, ok guy.

[andyb]

He is going to take a bunch of well deserved criticism for saying $260K is not a lot of money. His agent is probably telling him to donate more than that to Philly-area charities today.

[zambonir]

I don't really have an issue with that part of his statement. For one thing I'm pretty sure it was in response to a direct question about that aspect of missing the series, and while it may not be relatable, that is in fact pocket change for him. And if the implication is that he'd be willing to sacrifice his (misguided) beliefs if it was going to cost him more (or a World Series appearance), I get that too. Ironically my household makes the same calculation as vaccinated persons when it comes to certain kinds of work (some things are worth the risk and some or not). As well as fun things.

[Patchmk88]

Guy has done himself no favors in the public eye.

[LoneStarPhan]

Yes, a personal choice. However, if say 90% of us had made the choice to not vax then we might still have hospitals overflowing with COVID patients and 2022 might see another million or so dying from COVID in our country. It is certainly probable that those who did not get the vaccine contributed to the virus sticking around longer than might have been the case if 90+% got vaxed.

I am especially upset when I hear that members of the military are among those fighting the vaccinations. This just cannot be allowed and those who refuse should be discharged.

As to professional athletes, those refusing the vax without a medical reason are letting their teammates, their team, and the fans down. In fact, they are letting down the country and their fellow citizens (and non-citizens) down.

We drove two hours to get our first shots and felt great relief when we recrived them. It reminded us of how we felt over sixty years ago when we lined up to get the polio shot.

[LoneStarPhan]

I guess some teams have it even worse when heading to Toronto,.

Ten unvaccinated Royals unavailable for Toronto series

[zambonir]

Also being discussed in the non-Phillies thread. Merrifield says he'd probably get vaccinated if he had to go to Toronto for a playoff game. (Other than that, his take is that since vaccinated people are getting and spreading it he doesn't need to be vaccinated.)

https://twitter.com/anne__rogers/status/1547342762445623296/photo/1

[zambonir]

Philly has started placing unvaccinated city workers on leave. Here’s how the...