Phillies Sign 1B Carlos Santana

[Austinfan]

I don't think you need to signal agents, they can figure out who has money to burn, and the Phillies have been spenders since 2010 or so.
Santana is like Thome in that he's a veteran presence on a very young lineup.

[California_Dreamin]

AF...you are incorrect here, SF and Squire are correct. Until Santana was signed, the Phils were probably viewed very skeptically by agents throughout the baseball world since no one [maybe not even Klentak] knew exactly when Mt. Middleton would eventually erupt and open up the wallet.

Something happened behind the scenes, I am convinced of it, and I believe it started...and ended with Middleton, perhaps even with some subtle push from Kapler once he had a chance to meet the players and peruse the roster. He might have indicated that the Phils were not far from being contenders and with the proper additions anything was possible, see Cubs/Astros and their quick turnabouts from one year to the next.

Now the agents know that not only do the Phils have the money to spend...but they are now serious about spending it. This matters to people like Boras and Co. Phils will still not be at the head of the financial spending class, but they are finally, at long last, once again in line.

[zambonir]

The agents knew they had the money. That's why the Phillies were in so many rumors. And I don't think anything changed. The Phillies were linked to Santana over a month ago. I always believed they would get a bat, I just thought it would be a LF, not a 1B who moves Hoskins to LF. That Klentak was very publicly saying he wasn't going to be aggressive only made it more believable that he would walk away from a four-year deal or an outrageous trade demand. Which he surely has.

Santana's skill set was exactly what this front office likes and if all he does is improve this team from 75 to 80 games he's still worth it and it's not a wasted year like it might be if they signed a pitcher who breaks down by 2020. Basically they took advantage of a 'market inefficiency (teams are shying away from QOs, not that many 1B buyers) and their ability to overpay to get a deal. The price of admission to do that was the compensation and moving Hoskins but that's still cheaper than giving up talent in a trade for a bat, or getting locked into a four-five year deal.

The signal, ultimately, is not that the Phillies are open for business but, as everyone has hoped, that they have a better chance be good enough this year to be more attractive to those free agents. That puts them on an equal footing with another team that's willing to write a $400 million check.

We'll see if they add more than one starting pitcher. If not, they didn't really do anything that radical, they just decided to try and add 3-4 WAR via run production instead of run prevention.

[California_Dreamin]

Having the money and spending it are two entirely different things.

[allentown]

We do have some OF surplus to trade for pitching and I would support that, but do not want that OF to be Hoskins. Pitching is really our weak spot, lots of arms, but few dominant or elite level options. To seriously contend by 2019 or 2020 imo, the pitching needs to be majorly upgraded at the ML level.

We can get by with one outside the organization guy, if that guy is
a #1/2 starter FA. New Guy, Nola, Sixto Sanchez, fill in the last two spots with young starters from our MLB and minor league teams. FA guy could be from MLB, Japan, or Cuba, or even our first round pick in upcoming draft if we get lucky with a college pitcher who moves fast.

[zambonir]

(Taking this from Galvis thread)

Philles Trade Freddy Galvis

Apart from WIP, I've read and heard mostly positive about the Galvis trade, but on Santana it's mainly 'why a first baseman?'.

I think they just liked Santana - and his price - better than any available 3B or LF. Particularly his OBP and switch-hitting. So they got creative, and obviously Hoskins graded out well internally during his time in LF last year.

And while it's unlikely to happen, Santana is not a no-field, no-other-position player, which this front office clearly values too. He might not ever catch but he's played 3B (though not for a while) and he played RF last year.

Right now detractors can only compare this move to nonexistent moves. Once Martinez and Hosmer and Moustakas sign I think it will look a lot better.

[Austinfan]

And I'm sure they talked to the agents for Martinez, Hosmer and Moustakas, and didn't like the terms.
This was Klentak driven, I think he looked at this lineup, thought it was asking too much of Hoskins in his first full season to carry the team, and saw the value of a veteran, reliable bat to take some pressure off the kids.
I think he also looked at his prospects, and knows that in 2021, Hoskins, Cozens, Randolph or Ortiz will be his 1B. And keep an eye on Derrick Hall. So three years was the max he was going to offer anyone.
Hoskins also showed them enough athleticism to project him as an adequate LF.

[DurhamBull]

And while it's unlikely to happen, Santana is not a no-field, no-other-position player, which this front office clearly values too. He might not ever catch but he's played 3B (though not for a while) and he played RF last year.

I posted (upthread, I think), that Santana has a total of 57 innings of playing time in the OF (53 of them in RF last season, oddly enough). In his 1/3rd season with the Phils, Hoskins already has 4x more OF experience than Santana. Not to say that Santana in the OF won't ever happen, but I do expect to see him only as a 1B/DH with the OF stints being reserved for those wild 14-inning games.

[zambonir]

Most likely, but they seem pretty serious about this mix-and-match thing. When you look at how the Dodgers used Bellinger, Forsythe and Taylor, anything is possible. Now, granted, I can't think of any real reason to play Santana in the OF (as the team is currently constituted) but you never know. Had those 7 games in RF not been last year it might seem more far-fetched..

[Lucky_Beagle]

What were the circumstances for Santana playing the outfield some games last season? Did they occur in NL parks when they wanted the bat of their typical DH at 1B and Santana's bat (rf) in the lineup as well? Did they occur because someone was banged up and they thought a few games at 1B would be better than the outfield for a player so they switched them? Did the games occur all at the same time or were they spread out over the course of the season? I guess I could go look some of it up.

[andyb]

Santana might be just as fast as Hoskins with a better arm. Now he is aging so the mobility could go away, but there are reasons to try it out.

[DurhamBull]

Santana might be just as fast as Hoskins with a better arm. Now he is aging so the mobility could go away, but there are reasons to try it out.

Yeah, to be fair, even though Hoskins is a lot younger, he's a bigger guy. BBref lists Hoskins at 6'4", 225lbs while Santana is 5'11", 210lbs.

Both have some SBs, Santana with few more than Hoskins, both with SB/CS ratios that suggest neither one of them should be trying to steal bags.

I agree with the suggestion (made in the Galvis thread) that the Phils might also be hedging their bets on Hoskins, which IMO is reasonable. If Hoskins struggles, it’d be good to give him much time off to clear his head. But without Santana, who’s the backup 1B, Joseph? Franco? With Santana at 1B and Hoskins in the OF, it’s much easier to give Hoskins some days off or even send him back to AAA for a bit if needs be. The Phils needed a backup 1B anyway and they just took the unexpected route of giving that role to Hoskins without taking his bat out of the lineup.

If Hoskins tears the cover off the ball but embarrasses himself in LF in 2018, the Phils can eat half of Santana’s salary, trade him in the offseason, and reinstate Hoskins at 1B for 2019.

Carlos Santana Stats | Baseball-Reference.com

Rhys Hoskins Stats | Baseball-Reference.com

[mdougherty12]

What were the circumstances for Santana playing the outfield some games last season? Did they occur in NL parks when they wanted the bat of their typical DH at 1B and Santana's bat (rf) in the lineup as well? Did they occur because someone was banged up and they thought a few games at 1B would be better than the outfield for a player so they switched them? Did the games occur all at the same time or were they spread out over the course of the season? I guess I could go look some of it up.

5 of Santana’s 7 starts were in NL parks to keep Edwin Encarnacion in the lineup at 1B. The other 2 starts occurred when Cleveland played 2 doubleheaders in a row (with a day off in between), where Santana played RF in one game each day, so Encarnacion could play 1B and someone else could DH.

[zambonir]

I don't believe it's likely to happen often but here's where I could see it happening: if they're facing a few tough righthanded starters in a row and you wanted to load up with lefty bats for a game, you could go with an OF of Herrera-Williams-Santana. But that assumes there's another LHB to play 1B (besides Florimon or Knapp).

If they really do go with a short bench and aggressive match-ups and counter match-ups, could also happen for PH/double-switches occasionally. Because Santana is a SH and can play RF as well as LF (and heck, 3B in a pinch) it's just possible.

[julio]

The Phils made it official this morning:

Philadelphia Phillies (Phillies)

Jesse Sanchez has the contract details:

Jesse Sanchez (JesseSanchezMLB)

[Philsmania]

When will Hunter be formally announced? phillies.com doesn't have him or Santana listed on the forty man roster yet. I was thinking initially that the roster was overloaded but then I remembered the Galvis deal and realized that de los Santos did not have to be put on the forty-man. Santana and Hunter will put us at the limit.

[julio]

When will Hunter be formally announced?

It's not on the mlb.com roster or transactions page yet, but the Phillies twitter account reported Hunter (and Neshek) as "OFFICIAL" on the 15th.

Philadelphia Phillies (Phillies)

For whatever it's worth - it's the off-season, and the MLB and MiLB websites are (IMHO) notorious for not being properly maintained in the off-season. Minor-league tansactions, in particular, often don't get posted for days (weeks?) after they happen. Bottom line appears to be that the people at MLBAM, while technically very good, mostly aren't serious baseball fans... so have no clue what's important. They prioritize glitzy features over providing information - because they're web designers/coders, not fans.

[Philsmania]

When will Hunter be formally announced?

It's not on the mlb.com roster or transactions page yet, but the Phillies twitter account reported Hunter (and Neshek) as "OFFICIAL" on the 15th.

Philadelphia Phillies (Phillies)

For whatever it's worth - it's the off-season, and the MLB and MiLB websites are (IMHO) notorious for not being properly maintained in the off-season. Minor-league tansactions, in particular, often don't get posted for days (weeks?) after they happen. Bottom line appears to be that the people at MLBAM, while technically very good, mostly aren't serious baseball fans... so have no clue what's important. They prioritize glitzy features over providing information - because they're web designers/coders, not fans.

For whatever the reason, it's odd to see Neshek and Santana on the roster and the transaction ledger but not Hunter.

[julio]

For whatever the reason, it's odd to see Neshek and Santana on the roster and the transaction ledger but not Hunter.

Agreed! But odd screwups by MLBAM are par for the course, IMHO.

[Philsmania]

For whatever the reason, it's odd to see Neshek and Santana on the roster and the transaction ledger but not Hunter.

Agreed! But odd screwups by MLBAM are par for the course, IMHO.

It gets odder. As of today, if you search Tommy Hunter on mlb.com, it directs you to the Rays site with a picture of Hunter in a Phillies uniform.

Tommy Hunter Stats, Fantasy & News