Phillies Hot Stove, Winter 2023-24

[allentown]

Phillies are banking on the value of continuity with a lower-key offseason

I think it's more a matter of having already stretched the budget as far as they are comfortable doing than actually believing in the value of continuity. That's just an excuse and contrary to their prior behavior under Middleton. Overall, I think it the correct choice for this season.

[andyb]

Staying below the 3rd luxury tax line seems a reasonable strategy. We do not want draft penalties affecting our player acquisition strategy. We should use money as an advantage up to the point of where it affects our young talent base. Trading prospects is fine, but we really should not do that if it is only a rental.

The Castellanos deal is really the only "stupid" money deal we have done. There has been a very good baseball case for everything else (Harper, Schwarber, Wheeler, Turner, Nola). And Casty only threw us above the first luxury tax line, not the 3rd.

[VoteForKalas]

The Walker signing may be another one we regret

[andyb]

That is a little different though than saying the signing was one that was "stupid money" which was the Middleton insinuation about spending money. Walker was good value for what he was (4th starter/innings eater). Castellanos was just a luxury after we got Schwarber. Each probably had the same chance of being a bad deal eventually, but the team needed Walker much more than Castellanos.

[VoteForKalas]

Good distinction. I agree we needed a starting pitcher more, but not sure if Walker was the best choice.

[zambonir]

Julio's got something to correct then. Seeing as how that linked out, I assume it did show up on the MLB/MILB transactions initially, and then got corrected.

November-December 2023 Phillies Minor League Transactions

He would just make the standard AAA salary for a non-40 player in the meantime I guess? Does seem weird they wouldn't just release him but I suppose he could also be a perfectly adequate filler piece in Allentown. You'd think someone might actually take him in the draft if they think it's worth considering him for more than that though.

[David_Criss]

Right now the only bench lock is Sosa. Castro, Clemens, Hall, Wilson, Cave and Muzziotti are the other candidates. With that being the case, might as well let Kingery join the group to battle for a spot, too as a non roster invitee.

[andyb]

Well we are pretty sure we'll have a right-handed CF (Pache or Rojas) so there really needs to be a left-handed bat in the mix.

It is just tough to see Kingery as a serious threat to make the bench. It is possible though that he really didn't get better offers and the Phillies did give him something on a minor league deal for him to stay. I have no issue with his staying. It just does not mean much and he is vulnerable whenever the team has some middle infielders at AAA and for the moment they really don't have many.

[zambonir]

Yeah but Kingery isn't competing with a half-dozen players for a spring training invite or bench job; he's competing to merely be one of 165 useful minor league players in the system. Or at least, that is what Matt is suggesting (if he isn't protected in the minor league phase).

If they decide to keep him he could get a ST invite just to be nice, just like last year, but I don't think he would actually even beat out Castro, Clemens or Wilson (plus either Pache, Sosa or someone not signed yet is still going to be on the bench). At this point the fact that he used to be Scott Kingery is meaningless; he's a fungible bench IF just like Maton and Guthrie and Luke Williams were.

[andyb]

Actually no. He is competing for one of the last 10-20 spots in the system reserved for useful veterans that can be a good influence in AAA and maybe help out the big club in an emergency (since you don't care about losing him in a DFA).

Those spots are limited. The 180-man domestic roster forces choices among players older than 25. You can't have too many of them. Half the people that get spring training invites on minor league deals will get cut at the end of Spring Training because they don't make the club (either MLB or AAA).

[zambonir]

The way I read Matt's info (and the fact that the transaction disappeared) he simply didn't have the ability to declare free agency and the Phillies didn't actually release him (had he been on the 40 he would have to be tendered). But is that so?

So is the roster getting to cut 165 in 2024, which the CBA says the teams can do?

[andyb]

Some small tidbits here. Gelb might be reading our Kingery discussion. He has one more year until he gets minor league free agency and the Phillies DID protect him on the AAA roster. He seems to be stuck in that middle ground of AAAA replacement but his weird major league contract meant he did not accumulate enough minor league time for free agency. Can't imagine he'll be drafted today.

We still are shopping for an outfielder and a right-handed reliever. In the second tier so we might have to wait for the top guys to sign. And everyone seems to like Bryan Rincon now. He does seem to have a little more well-rounded athleticism than Cabo and especially Bergolla in terms of looking at the future, especially if he can stick at SS. Most likely among those three to be a 15-20 HR guy.

Phillies' shopping list includes righty reliever, starter: 2024 roster...

[julio]

Julio's got something to correct then. Seeing as how that linked out, I assume it did show up on the MLB/MILB transactions initially, and then got corrected.

Yeah. Kingery's free agency was reported, and listed in transactions... and then disappeared. I've deleted the listing.

It's a little mystifying, frankly. Kingery has played in the Phillies system for nine consecutive years. Unless there was something specific in his contract, he should qualify as a "six year minor league free agent" (the Uniform Player Contract that all players sign requires participate in seven seasons before qualifying as a "six year" minor league free agent, and Kingery certainly has met that, and he's not on the 40-man roster).

Maybe there was some provision that binds him to the organization for 2024 if he accepts the 2024 buyout of his multi-year contract?

[zambonir]

Yup see andy's post above for confirmation. It will actually be kind of sad if nobody takes Kingery in the major league Rule 5 because why wouldn't a team at least want to get a look at him? And yeah I was puzzled how his years of service time didn't make him a minor league free agent too.

Also in Gelb's story: Noah Song is once again available in the Rule 5.

And Dombrowski says they likely aren't taking anyone.

He also said he turned down a trade that might have involved Kerkering, I'm guessing that would have been for someone like Clase or Devon Williams (he said most people would have seen it as a "good trade.... [but] we also have to have some young players that are not making a lot of money.” Music to a lot of people's ears here!

[bkeich]

I wonder if Kingery chose not to file for Free Agency realizing there was a very limited market. Would be a weird move of course, but it may be that he is hoping to get another season out of the Phillies

[julio]

I wonder if Kingery chose not to file for Free Agency realizing there was a very limited market. Would be a weird move of course, but it may be that he is hoping to get another season out of the Phillies

I don't know.

As a rule, notwithstanding that MLB lists players as having "elected" free agency in the transactions, the change in contract status is automatic. Players don't have to request free agency. When their contracts expire, they become free agents. There is nothing in the CBA or the Uniform Players Contract that even suggests a process for "filing" for free agency.

[bkeich]

That would make sense, but I did think they had to. Maybe I am thinking of the process for a different sport.

[zambonir]

Does one's time on the 40-man roster not count towards "minor league free agency"? Or do you have to spend "X" number of days in the minors for the year to count? If you're only including Kingery's time prior to his signing of the MLB contract (and then his time after being DFA'ed) he certainly doesn't get there.

You have to "elect" free agency in MLB when you get DFA'ed, if you have the right to do so. Kingery did not have that right under his contract (or in terms of his major league service time I wouldn't think). But his contract was up. This is something else.

[Patchmk88]

Rumors that the Phillies have signed Joc Pederson. Supposedly he posted #ringthebell on his instagram. Trying to track it down.

[Patchmk88]

Actually looks like he posted a picture of him and the phanatic and with the caption - "It's always sunny in Philadelphia"

Joc Pederson on Instagram: "It’s always sunny in Philadelphia"