2021 General Minor League Discussion

andyb 2021-06-08 23:45:22 UTC #179

PhuturePhillies says 7/12 through 10/2. Since those dates are different than in the past I imagine Jim got it from the Phillies.

julio 2021-06-09 00:39:43 UTC #180

Thanks, andyb!

bkox 2021-06-14 17:57:33 UTC #181

Per BA's reporting, the Phillies will have only 1 GCL team. Only teams with two GCL teams are the Tigers, Orioles, and Pirates. Royals, Giants, and Brewers in the AZL complete the group with 2 complex league teams.
— Matt Winkelman ( @Matt_Winkelman ) June 14, 2021

andyb 2021-06-14 20:16:56 UTC #182

Given that those teams are not the usual suspects with lots of minor league teams, one has to think that this came down to how teams want to allocate their 180-person organizational limit among 5 or 6 teams. The Phillies have so many injured players that they probably had no choice to go to 6. And they are really using the expanded 30-man rosters at most levels with lots and lots of short pitching stints so far.

The Phillies also appear to be leaving their 2 high priced international signings (Rickardo Perez and Yemal Flores) in the DSL this year where previously they would have pushed them to GCL. Assume this is true for all their 2021 new signees and perhaps many from the previous period (which would have been July of 2019) aside from Yhoswar Garcia. The non-Latino players from that class (Chris Burke and Samuel Aldegheri) are in extended. Not sure many else are.

It is not going to be a prospect-laden GCL team unfortunately. Jamari Baylor is the highlight. Chris Burke and Marcus Lee Sang are interesting prospects. Beyond that it is a bunch of unknowns though I am guessing they'll have a few more arms similar to the ones impressing in Clearwater. Not really any high dollar arms unfortunately.

bkox 2021-06-14 15:02:17 UTC #183

#Phillies have re-signed OF Grenny Cumana to a minor league contract.
— MiLB-Transactions ( @tombaseball29 ) June 14, 2021

julio 2021-06-15 16:04:14 UTC #184

2 posts were merged into an existing topic: January 15, 2021 International Signing Period (was 7/2/20)

bkox 2021-06-19 17:19:00 UTC #185

BaseballCat 2021-06-19 18:39:18 UTC #186

When I lived in the area or when I get back to the area, I love watching games in Reading. Plus the hotdogs are awesome. Hope they can work out the space issues.

andyb 2021-06-20 17:25:57 UTC #187

A few interesting non-prospect promotions because of injury. Corbin Williams (speedy OF who has never hit) to AAA. Jose Cedeno (20-year-old speedy OF who hit .181 in GCL 2 years ago) from extended all the way to AA. C Freddy Francisco to Jersey Shore even though he was the 3rd catcher at Clearwater. And Micah Yonamine to Clearwater.

I don't think this qualifies as CD's reward for performance. It is really designed to let good defensive players man the bench spots while the more rounded players play at their proper level full time. Sometimes non-prospect promotion is interesting and defense sometimes matters (the career of Tuffy Gosewich is example number one).

California_Dreamin 2021-06-20 17:38:20 UTC #188

andyb...my reference to promotions wasn't necessarily tied to the minors as much as it was to major league promotions, though I am not convinced that the former won't happen eventually. Look, I realize that every organization has only X amount of players allowed [what is it, 180?] so because of injuries, covid protocols etc. minor league systems will move players around. Makes sense and is logical.

But i believe the promotions to the Phils will be predicated more on performance rewards than organizational hierarchy because of draft or bonus status. Hey, I might be wrong, we shall see. But if you predicted that on June 20, 2021 Maton, Vierling, Falter and Williams would all be wearing Phillie pinstripes you are likely in the wrong business and should give Dombrowski a call right now. He likely would have a job in the minor league system for you right now!

Austinfan 2021-06-20 17:50:23 UTC #189

Given their track record with high dollar arms, I'll bet on the 10K bonus guys.

andyb 2021-06-20 18:36:44 UTC #190

I agree it is good to see these promotions rewarded. I remember many of us here thinking they were looking at Maton alternatives to the bench last winter that were really not better than what they had. I think you are conflating good performances here with historic promotion patterns here. Remember that all four of those players (Maton, Vierling, Falter, and Williams) were not too old to be prospects even if they were sometimes a year or two older at their levels compared to the best prospects. They were also all mid-level draft picks picked largely for their tools where mediocre performance in the past has not been a strike against them. In other words they are all players the Phillies kept promoting slowly because of their tools and not just because of lights out performance.

I think all these promotions might have happened in the past too. Maton was the obvious first middle infielder up from LHV when Kingery failed. Williams then played great, but remember he always was highly regarded for his athletic tools and defense but had never hit. So promoting him when there was a need after he hit was not a shock. Falter was always seen as a guy who could pitch in the majors if he got his velocity into the 92-94 range like Suarez. Again no shock. Vierling is the biggest surprise. He was old for his levels but always had enough tools to be a tweener (not the defense for CF, doubts about corner OF offense). He is up now largely because of injuries and the alternatives ahead of him not playing well. A guy playing well in AA promoted over the guy struggling a bit in AAA (Moniak, Haseley) is not a shock and his promotion is likely a temporary bench role hedging against Harper's back.

So I welcome these promotions. It is always good to reward performance. I just think all would have been promoted in the past. Maybe the change is we are improving our internal development? Maybe 2 years off just helped these toolsy guys have time to figure things out.

andyb 2021-06-20 18:38:34 UTC #191

But their track record on high dollar arms is not bad. You always want to bet on the 10K guys but you can't run an organization like that. Everybody has a few that make it. I doubt the Phillies are better than most other organizations.

These comments just imply that you think the Phillies should never spend money on Latin American arms. And that would not be smart.

Austinfan 2021-06-20 21:31:55 UTC #192

I was being a bit facetious, but there is some truth to that, their best LA arms have been the low cost gambles on frame and arm instead of being enamored with high velocity 16 year olds who lack the body control to develop command and secondary pitches. The pitching equivalent to Ortiz.

Who are the successful high priced arms?
Neris ($17K), SD ($25K), Suarez ($25K), Sanchez ($35K), Llovera ($7.5K),

Lehigh: Medina ($70K)
Reading: Morales ($720K)
Jersey Shore: Santos ($150K), Silva ($100K), Reyes (???)
Clearwater: Yanez (???), Castillo ($1.6M), J Martinez (???), Francisco (($10K), Vargas ($525K), Garrido (???), Hernandez (???), Segovia (???), A Made (???),

bkox 2021-06-21 03:06:14 UTC #193

#Phillies have signed OF Logan Landon to a minor league contract.
— MiLB-Transactions ( @tombaseball29 ) June 20, 2021

allentown 2021-06-21 14:07:36 UTC #194

This does get what's wrong with the Phillies' international scouting. It is the same thing that had been (hopefully fixed) wrong with our drafting. We get the biggest decisions wrong: the big $ signees that likely everyone and his brother has to agree on, just as with the first and second round draft picks in the not so long ago days of bad first rounders. This is a systemic problem which seems not to have been fixed on the international side. With limited roster spots and a lot of time to develop international 16-year olds, your preferred quantity over quality approach is now a non-starter. There is no alternative to developing an international scouting team that gets the big decisions right. About half of the total international spending has gone to the number one guy each year. In the case of Ortiz, almost all of our allocation.

I suspect that we don't have good relationships with the top buscones. Possibly because other teams slip them $ under the table and we don't. Possibly they don't like Sal, formed dislike of Phillies during lean-spending years, perhaps we are too slow to commit to the best prospects because we think to young to evaluate, while other MLB teams lock them up. Perhaps our scouts just can't distinguish top talent from those you describe as projectable bodies.

In any event, something is very seriously wrong with our international scouting program and has been for many years. It is distressing when an organization has the same fatal flaw year after year. That is management ineptitude.

andyb 2021-06-21 14:23:22 UTC #195

Most organizations have success with low dollar arms on 16 year olds where there is lots of variation in outcome.

What you forget though is that this started when you posted that the Phillies have not had success with high dollar arms. That is not true though. They just have not signed many high dollar arms. Castillo I think is the only million dollar arm ever. Morales still seems a good bet to be at least a late inning reliever and he is our second largest signing ever. Carlos Silva and Carlos Carrasco were two of our biggest signings in the past and they both succeeded.

We are definitely hit and miss with our $300K-$500K arms though we really have not signed a lot of them until the past 5 years and hitting on one of every three or four would be good with those signings.

Most teams shy away from high dollar pitching signings these days because of the risk. The Phillies included. Where the book is out though is on the mid-dollar signings. You seem to like this magical world where you think teams can do well without signing high dollar prospects. There are organizational roster limits now that will be extended to the Dominican complex in the next year or two. One cannot just sign 50 $10K pitchers any more, and even when you could organizations cannot develop all of them adequately. So it seems the optimal strategy is really to sign 4-6 pitchers in the $300K-$600K range every year and hope you hit on one or two of them.

It was just a lazy comment saying we have not hit on high dollar arms. It just is not true because they have not signed many. We need to stop spending too much on mid-level offensive prospects like Jhailyn Ortiz and Luis Garcia (we can still sign them, just should not overpay). That is a very different problem though and pointing out low dollar successes is not that useful either because most organizations have them especially on the pitching side.

Philsmania 2021-06-21 15:05:01 UTC #196

We definitely don't get the elite Latin American talent (Soto, Acuna, Guerrero Jr, Tatis Jr., etc.) and when we do spend money on Latin American kids, they usually turn out to be duds (Encarnacion, Ortiz, etc.). We do, on occasion, get some good mid-tier prospects but only Ruiz really became a star. Galvis & Hernandez became serviceable MLers. Of course, the multimillion dollar question is how we fix the international system.

Asia is its own unique animal and for geographic reasons, West Coast teams have an advantage there.

bkox 2021-06-22 01:20:25 UTC #197

TRANSACTION | Congrats to catcher @LoMo_10 Logan Moore for having his contract purchased by @Phillies ! He'll join @IronPigs in the AAA-East. #RockOn #KeepRocking pic.twitter.com/DIRu6vRR8G
— High Point Rockers Baseball ( @RockersBaseball ) June 20, 2021

mdougherty12 2021-06-22 03:00:05 UTC #198

I read this and initially thought that the Phils were re-signing Logan Morrison as AAA depth. It turns out that Morrison was signed by the Reds 10 days ago from the same Atlantic League team that the Phils just plucked Logan Moore from.