2018-19 Phillies Off-Season News/Notes/Discussion

[phillychuck]

A pretty significant fraction of the Phillies' Fans actually did love Abreu, myself included. He was the epitome of a percentage player, always looking to maintain the long-term edge by not playing singles into triples, staying on the field, and taking walks when the pitcher wouldn't give him anything to hit. My all-time personal favorite Phillies' team has a prominent role for him.

[allentown]

Certainly one of my favorites as well.

[Austinfan]

I think the issue with the Phillies is they simply haven't had many good Latino players.

Hernandez has never taken the next step to be in the top 10 at his position.
Herrera may be the most frustrating player I've seen in my lifetime, flashes of greatness but . . .
Ruiz was pretty bad when he first came up .735, and .620 OPS at 28 and 29 years old, some here would have labelled him a AAAA player - then he took off.
Polanco was probably the best LA player but they screwed that up.
Willie Montanez simply wasn't that good, .798 OPS as a rookie 1B was his best season.

There's Abreu and ???

If Polanco or Ortiz become 30+ HR hitters with .850 OPS and rocket arms in RF, if SD becomes the shutdown closer, if Sixto gets healthy, comes up and wins ROY, if one of the LA infielders becomes the next Altuve, I think suddenly you'll find a lot of Latin love at the Linc.

Same way Roman Quinn stays healthy and gets his OPB over .350 and does his best Garry Maddox imitation, he'll be a huge fan favorite. Or if Crawford becomes the player he was hyped up to be.

Heck, if Herrera hit the whole season like he did the first two months, and played CF like he did in 2017, he'd be a bundle of lovable idiosyncrasies, not a head case.

And if Kingery has another year like last year, they'll boo his white ass out of the stadium.

[EDmuch]

I think what AF wrote is basically true. It is more of a performance issues than any type of ethnic stereotype issue.

[jimbomill]

I think what AF wrote is basically true. It is more of a performance issues than any type of ethnic stereotype issue

I agree. But, we need to sign, or develop, that player, be he a Tony Taylor or Chooch type of player.

[phillychuck]

3 posts were split to a new topic: New Director of Player Development--Josh Bonifay

[nycphils]

I don’t know — Abreu was pretty great, and Burrell was tolerated when his bat disappeared in ‘03 in a way in which Odubel was not. I’d say it is a mix...but little different than most cities.

[allentown]

I don’t know — Abreu was pretty great, and Burrell was tolerated when his bat disappeared in ‘03 in a way in which Odubel was not. I’d say it is a mix...but little different than most cities.

This is true and what makes the situation stand out. Abreu never had a bad season in Philly, and yet was pilloried and given away to the Yankees for free. Bobby's lowest WAR in 8.5 Phillies seasons was 3.6 (He had 2.0 WAR in Philly and 1.9 WAR in NYC the year he was given away). His lowest OPS+ for the Phillies was 118. He was consistently very good, but the Phillies own announcers, controlled by the team, pilloried him.

I think your mention of Burrell is apt. Burrell stank under the weight of the huge early-extension contract he signed over that winter. I think he realized that painted a target on his back for the boo birds to fire at. It also conveyed a 'we paid you, now your the leader and there are expectations' message from management. When things went bad, he wilted under that burden. He was fine the next season.

Hopefully the same dynamic with Odubel. There is a column about Odubel on the Athletic. He has decided that he is a mature, adult player who must be himself and that 'guidance' from more experienced Latino players, like Galvis two seasons ago, is no longer needed, wanted, nor something he will tolerate. I think is is behind the paywall, so won't give a link, but it is the top Phillies story shown today.

[EDmuch]

I am not sure why it was just published now, but the Athlete has an interview with Herrera that was conducted late in the season. Based upon the attitude he displayed in the interview, he comes across as a narcissistic screw off who wants to "be himself" and everyone and everything else be darned. To me his own words truly cemented his status as a first class grade A jerk.

[schillingfan]

Remember Abreu was traded for nothing because ownership insisted that payroll be cut and Burrell invoked his no trade clause. Gillick did not want to trade Abreu.

[California_Dreamin]

FWIW Dept...and probably because I have been a Phillies phan for far too long, I took the timing of the Herrera story [interviewed a while ago, just getting to [print now] as a sign that the Phils are preparing the phans for a Herrera deal this winter.

I do not necessarily adhere to the belief that the Phils braintrust of current times[Klentak/McPhail/Middleton] behave like the leaders of ancient yore [the Giles/Monty era] but I still can't shake this nagging thought that the Phils are still quite susceptible to the views of the average Phillie phan and go out of their way to justify their moves by prepping the phans for said moves in advance.

An article that suggests that Herrera is difficult to coach sure seems to me to be a way of justifying an anticipated deal of Herrera for likely pennies on the dollar.

Which would be a huge mistake in my book.

[julio]

FWIW Dept...and probably because I have been a Phillies phan for far too long, I took the timing of the Herrera story [interviewed a while ago, just getting to print now] as a sign that the Phils are preparing the phans for a Herrera deal this winter.

The problem I see here, CD, is that for your speculation to be correct, we have to assume that Meghan Montemurro is conspiring with the Phillies' front office on this - that she interviewed Herrera in July, but held her story until now, to help the front office "prepare the phans" for a trade. I find that... implausible.

The Athletic - referenced story

[zambonir]

It is curious Montemurro didn't use that interview at the time it was conducted, but nothing more than that. If anything, the telegraphing that the Phillies might be willing to move on from him has already occurred, repeatedly, which is why she wrote the story. But it's not part of a team campaign, even a whisper campaign.

I didn't think it was that negative a story either, personally. Just a fair one. And he didn't come any worse of different than usual. The only thing that's striking to me is he complained about last year's coaching staff and (essentially) Galvis and Blanco riding him too hard in the clubhouse, but the facts say he was a better player under that regime.

There's no right answer. If his trade value has hit rock bottom it's not because of the media or the Phillies. But I don't think it has. He's still a valuable major league player and if they do move on from him it will only be for a good return and he won't be easily replaced (CFs don't grow on trees and our only two alternatives both have big question marks).

[tom81]

Maybe Montemurro held off on the story not wanting to cause controversy in a 1st place team competing in a pennant race. We were in 1st place in late July when she says she interviewed Herrera. She also may have been encouraged to publish that story now either to ease the trade of Herrera as CD suggests but also may have been encouraged to publish that story to help light a fire under Herrera so he prepares better this off-season.

[allentown]

The only thing that's striking to me is he complained about last year's coaching staff and (essentially) Galvis and Blanco riding him too hard in the clubhouse

I noticed that as well, but what struck me was no mention of Santana this season, since one of the arguments for Santana, at least in the media, was as a leader/mentor to the young Hispanic players.

[zambonir]

All of those things are actually journalistic malpractice, not that it doesn't happen (in both sports and politics). I think it's a lot more innocent than that. She may have been working on a deep dive about Herrera - possibly going back to when he still looked like a surefire All-Star - that never ran at the time because she simply got busy with other things.

I doubt she was "encouraged" to publish anything now, but Kapler was happy to talk.

[julio]

Maybe Montemurro held off on the story not wanting to cause controversy in a 1st place team competing in a pennant race. We were in 1st place in late July when she says she interviewed Herrera. She also may have been encouraged to publish that story now either to ease the trade of Herrera as CD suggests but also may have been encouraged to publish that story to help light a fire under Herrera so he prepares better this off-season.

How to respond?

"..when she says she interviewed Herrera." "When she says? Implying that somehow the interview didn't happen at that time? Or just the careless addition of a couple words that just incidentally call into question her honesty?

And she could be turning in this story now because "she may have been encouraged to publish"? Implying that she takes her cues as to what to write from the Phillies' front office?

You don't think much of Montemurro as a sports reporter, do you?

[tom81]

How to respond?

"..when she says she interviewed Herrera." "When she says? Implying that somehow the interview didn't happen at that time? Or just the careless addition of a couple words that just incidentally call into question her honesty?

And she could be turning in this story now because "she may have been encouraged to publish"? Implying that she takes her cues as to what to write from the Phillies' front office?

You don't think much of Montemurro as a sports reporter, do you?

I think very highly of Montemurro as a sports writer/journalist Julio. I think you read into my comments opinions of her that I do not possess. The Athletic is behind a paywall and I added those comments to explain context to those who didn't actually read the article. I guess I have to be more explicit in my wording to avoid misinterpretation.

[julio]

The Athletic is behind a paywall and I added those comments to explain context to those who didn't actually read the article. I guess I have to be more explicit in my wording to avoid misinterpretation.

I may have misinterpreted your meaning, obviously. But...You were posting in reply to CD's post, which pretty clearly speculated that Montemurro's article was "in service to" the Phils' front office. (CD's well-known for "connecting dots" which may or may not actually be related.) I guess I would agree - if you're not jumping on that particular bandwagon, you need to be careful about your choice of words.

Sorry if I misunderstood you.

[EastFallowfield]

She's probably encouraged to put articles out now for those of us who read baseball stories year round and we have to wait for the WS to end for fresher news.