Discussion

andyb 2018-09-28 19:36:52 UTC #132

So now you want to sign Harper?

Austinfan 2018-09-28 19:51:14 UTC #133

If the price is right, I don't think he's worth a Machado contract, but the Phillies have the money to do an overpay.
I just don't think he's going to be the difference maker, either some young players step up or they'll have to blow it up and do Rebuild P II.

But with the quality pitching they have and coming up through the farm system, they don't have to be a top offense, an average offense with plus defense would be more than enough to make a run.

allentown 2018-09-28 19:55:03 UTC #134

Then you don't really want to sign Harper. The handwriting is on the wall: it's going to cost at least $300 million to sign him and I know from your past comments that you don't consider that a 'right' price.

EastFallowfield 2018-09-28 19:58:36 UTC #135

The price is never right on a name free agent.

zambonir 2018-09-28 20:17:21 UTC #136

It's hard to tell right now what Harper will get, you have to balance his youth and talent and this peak FA spending year against the shift in the market from last year and his down numbers this season (even if it's from defense more than hitting). Nobody thought Arrieta would have to take half of what Darvish got. It's possible he could be had for less years higher AAV. You also just never know with Boras, he likes the big contracts but he also likes the weird contracts (and now he wants the Phillies to save some future payroll for his new client).

If they whiff on Machado then it becomes more urgent to step up financially for Harper. If they don't, and they want both, then it gets interesting.

LoneStarPhan 2018-09-30 22:18:03 UTC #137

I was impressed with Quinn. They really can use his speed and defense. It remains to be seen what they end up doing with Hererra, if anything. He should have some value and I hate to see value lost. I would not be surprised to see another team show interest but there is no way I can judge if there is any interest out there for him. Regardless, they have to have a solid bench with replacements that can step in and play well. While we all hope Quinn can put up a full season, his history has to cause concern.

I'm ready for the winter meetings.

julio 2018-09-30 22:23:44 UTC #138

With the end of the 2018 season, general discussion of the Phillies direction/future, etc., should go here.

It's always tough to see the end of the baseball season... and a non-Phillies post-season doesn't count!

bigegypt0417 2018-10-01 12:31:19 UTC #139

and let's be honest...how many times are the free agents in their mid-20's....this type of group is not common.

EDmuch 2018-10-01 14:52:06 UTC #140

Well, if they go out and sign Machado and/or Harper, it is no longer about "rebuilding and development. Neither of those guys would sign with a team that is still "re-building". So if either is signed we will be definitely in the "being competitive" stage. And to be honest, I am not sure if we are really there. We still have so many guys who need further evaluation: Kingery, Crawford, Alfaro, Williams, Cozens. I have a hunch they will trade Franco, Herrera and Hernandez. LOts of moving parts and I am not as confident in the management group being able to handle it as I was last year.

andyb 2018-10-01 14:58:19 UTC #141

It certainly looks like they are thinking of trading this group. Playing Santana at 3B most of the last couple of weeks was a clear signal around Franco. I know he was hurt, but they also did not make much of an effort to try to get Franco in games (he did start once against the Braves in the first series). Then the news today about Herrera being out of shape.

Hernandez is a little bit of a different situation but if they did actually get Machado then one could see them weighing whether Kingery and Crawford would be ready at 2B even as a platoon. Hernandez like last year is movable because the team has other options. If we do not get Machado of course they might hedge their bets more.

The gamechanger is really Santana at 3B in terms of the team's thinking. Since Franco is not that good defensively the move of Santana to 3B is probably a net positive defensively because it gets Hoskins out of the OF while also adding a little more stability to the lineup (fewer defensive replacements needed).

bigegypt0417 2018-10-01 14:59:06 UTC #142

Cozens isn't in this conversation anymore...he's now a guy who is a stretch as a prospect.

Adding one of those players certainly stabilizes the line-up.

Hernandez should have been traded last winter when he was probably worth more than he ever will be...that was a miss.

Philsmania 2018-10-01 15:49:34 UTC #143

andyb:

EDmuch:

I have a hunch they will trade Franco, Herrera and Hernandez.
It certainly looks like they are thinking of trading this group. Playing Santana at 3B most of the last couple of weeks was a clear signal around Franco. I know he was hurt, but they also did not make much of an effort to try to get Franco in games (he did start once against the Braves in the first series). Then the news today about Herrera being out of shape.

Hernandez is a little bit of a different situation but if they did actually get Machado then one could see them weighing whether Kingery and Crawford would be ready at 2B even as a platoon. Hernandez like last year is movable because the team has other options. If we do not get Machado of course they might hedge their bets more.

The gamechanger is really Santana at 3B in terms of the team's thinking. Since Franco is not that good defensively the move of Santana to 3B is probably a net positive defensively because it gets Hoskins out of the OF while also adding a little more stability to the lineup (fewer defensive replacements needed).

If they really are thinking about trading Herrera, their recent comments about his conditioning should be seen as the kind of thing that the old regime used to do all the time and supposedly drove down the value of players. Add to that, it feeds into the meme that a lot phans have about him which says that he is as lazy as he is flaky.

andyb 2018-10-01 19:17:05 UTC #144

Kikuchi will get posted.

zambonir 2018-10-01 20:18:24 UTC #145

McPhail press conference tomorrow at 2:30

Philsmania 2018-10-01 21:27:13 UTC #146

Klentak's earlier today...

schillingfan 2018-10-01 21:55:44 UTC #147

I read the Herrera revelation as positing an explanation for his regression this season, not as depressing his trade value. Although it's a negative, he already has the reputation of being spacey. Bad conditioning is curable.

andyb 2018-10-01 22:08:35 UTC #148

The out of shape reports would be consistent with his statcast speed numbers being below average this year. Of course he could have bulked up a bit to hit more home runs. Good news is he is young enough that this should be a fixable problem.

Austinfan 2018-10-01 22:34:59 UTC #149

They may be trying to light a little fire under him, he may have gotten complacent with his deal, while not a lot of money by ML free agent standards, a whole lot of money for Herrera and lifetime security (you could buy a very nice house in Venezuela, and live the good life with what he'll make the next few years). Of course, he's not going to build that dream home for a while given the mess in Venezuela.

I think "lazy" is a lazy label, some players are wound tight and incredibly competitive, others lose their edge and focus once they get some money, which is actually more normal (though most professional athletes aren't what we'd consider normal). Sometimes it takes a wake up call for a player to realize they've been coasting.

mdougherty12 2018-10-03 14:50:56 UTC #150

The Phillies are hiring a couple more people in analytics:

gmwannabe 2018-10-03 17:07:58 UTC #151

great.. just great. look at the required qualifications. nothing mentioned of baseball. i can understand that looking at the job offers but still. i am not too enamored with this organization moving forward.
gm